Ask Engadget: Best cross-platform flash DAP with a screen?

Last week you were curious about wearable displays, and this week you want something for your ears. Reader Anonymous (extra props if that's your given name, dood) writes:

I like my iPod OK, but the sync and the DRM conspire to be a pain in the butt, especially when you're not at home. As a backup, can someone recommend a small, flash-based player with a screen that supports drag and drop files from Macs and PCs — and that, preferably, can be charged via USB 2.0? Doesn't need to be that big, maybe 512mb, or a gig.

Anyone wanna share their favorite(s)?

[taylor @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM]

i use the creative nomad muvo, highly recommend it.
simple UI, able to use in pocket....oh wait...its not rechargable by usb...it uses AAA.
well, i still recommend it.

[Mark Santora @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM]

I just picked up an iriver 20gb h10. It's got great sound, a nice color screen, and an intuitive control. FM Tuner, voice recorder, photo viewer, text viewer all included. Also, drag and drop via windows explorer. And finally, Plays for Sure. For $299, it's easily one of the best values out there.

On the downside, requires Windows Media Player 10 - but some people don't mind that so much.

[Jacob @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM]

You don't HAVE to synch your iPod. (I hate synching.) It's a feature you can easily turn-off in the preferences.

As a result, I "drag-and-drop" all my music to my iPod. Not through Explorer exactly, but through iTunes. (With the "Browse" mode on, it makes the process of digging through a large library very simple.)

[A Londoner @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM]

Mobiblu DAH 1500

[steve @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM]

I like my samsung yp-mt6. 1 gig, supports just about everything, 'cept aac. I find it easy to use. It uses a AA battery, but you can't complain about almost 40 hours of music from one AA.

[B Brown @ Dec 19th 2005 1:23AM]

I too have an ipod and I use the Creative muvo TXFM. They are cheap and easy to stick in your pocket. All you have to do is pull out the flash drive, stick it in a USB port, drag and drop and you're done.

[Pat @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

#4

Damn got to it before me. I just ordered one the other day. Cant wait for it to get in.

It has a built in Lth-Ion battery. I got the gig model. It charges through USB (dont remember if its 2.0 or not) and damn its small lol.

I bought mine off Ebay.
Item number: 5789324732
Buy only and the seller has ten left. I believe he also is selling the 512 model if you rather have that? (For some odd, crack smoking, reason.)

[matt @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

I'd recommend the n200, but the build quality sucks. A few friends I know who have it have broken their battery cover within a month, and thus have used clear tape to keep it shut.

I've seen the Samsung Yepp series and I'd recommend the T6 or the MT6, which is the same thing cept it uses AA batteries instead of AAA (and thus has 42+ hrs. of battery life as opposed to about 21). The earbuds are better than average, it comes with a usb dongle so you don't need to bring a cable around with you. Plus, it's small. Probably the smallest, with a display, that uses AAA's (t6).

[boss sauce @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

fyi there's no DRM issue on an iPod if you don't buy DRM'd media. also see (3). as for a screen, yeah that mobibly looks interesting.

[Drumrboy @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

The iRiver H320

simply the beeest DAP i have ever come across... Period.

goto:

www.misticriver.net

for the latest information on, and support for, all iRiver models.

[AG @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

Sony HMP-A1

Nice, big, clear screen.

[Dave @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

I don't know about it's quality...but looked around some retailers...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6793687&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat63100050013&id=1090933272278


MPIO 256MB* MP3 Player - Sapphire Blue
Model: FL300256MB
--------------------------------------------
*Rechargeable lithium-polymer battery provides up to 10 hours of playback

*Computer Compatibility PC and Mac

*Storage Type Flash memory (256MB)

Anyway, I think this has all of the things you were lookin' for...

I must agree with everyone else that SAMSUNG is coming out with some nice products though...you might want to test drive some Samsung products...

[saleh @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

I have an ipod, a Rio Chiba 128, a 1 G SD card, and a Sandisk MobileMate. For just over $100 for the package, I have a few hours of my favorites always at hand. I consider the Chiba disposable - the card cost more than the player, and I can reuse it. Also, I really like that it uses an AAA battery rather than a rechargeable.

[supersocialist @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

The Rio Carbon is bigger than you specified (2.5, 5, and upcoming 6gb models), but it's a great unit that has served me well. USB 2.0 charging, drag-and-drop access or sync with the very usable Rio Music Manager. You can get a 5GB model for under $150 on eBay.

[moliket @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

Without a doubt the samsung YP-T7. It supports all types of media, MP3 encoding, FM tuner, Image viewer, nice looking OLED, and a rechargable lith. By far the best 150 I've spent in awhile, except for that massage in new delhi...

[Sparkster @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

Creative Zen Micro. Excellent sound. Rechargable Li battery. 5GB hard drive. Small size. FM radio. Sync's calendar and contacts to MS Outlook. Plays for sure. Touch pad too sensitive is the only downside.

[toast @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

Nothing that's available does windows subscription drm off of flash... except for windows based devices that happen to be phones or pdas.

Put off the purchase for another month, and see if anyone has put the pieces together by then.

Lexar's LDP 200 can do it based on press releases, but not based on the product in my hand.

[Mike @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

I don't blame M$. They aren't the ones putting out the content they are the ones making the software that plays it and makes it easy for everyone to enjoy on whatever device we choose to play it on. They have alot riding on Windows Media Center and WM10 or VC1 and for that to be successful they have to play nice with the content owners (Movie Studios, TV, RIAA). We all know no copy protection has been able to stop us yet so breath easy.

[Michael @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

I have a 512MB Muro flash player that has a prismatic rechargable, it's been sitting in my desk drawer completely unused since I got the 20GB iPod.

Next time I clean out the desk I'm sure it will keep the old Sony Discman company. I can't give the Discman away, I'm sure the Muro will be in the same situation very soon...

[JuyLe @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

I love the CoWon iAudio X5 :) !

[Tsardoz @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

Most of these comments do not meet the original spec.
There are several on ebay. Do a search on "mp3 512 rechargeable"
eg.
http://search.ebay.com/mp3-rechargeable-512_W0QQfromZR40QQsojsZ1

Prices are about $50. All the mp3 players (not mp4) use the same chip so are pretty much the same.

[Phredd @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

When I don't have my iPod with me, I always have my Treo 650 with pTunes. I've got a 1 GB SD card, but you can use any size and you can drag whichever songs or album folders you want. Color screen with decent interface.

Phredd

[selfnoise @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

Reading your specs, you might want to think about the 512mb Creative Muvo Slim. It's got a nice form factor, it's rechargable from USB, and it's a USB 2.0 Mass Storage Device so it supports drag and drop. I have a 256mb version and it's a constant companion. It even has a surprisingly decent FM tuner.

[Nuke @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

I supose for a backup you want something economical, so i highly recomend the Ultra mp3 flash player: http://www.ultraproducts.com/product_details.php?cPath=33&pPath=225&productID=225
It has 256mb, SD expansion slot, FM radio and its rally cheap.
Or else you could go for the MSI Megastick which is a good product also.
And if your feeling rich, go for any of the flash players made by Cowon (www.jetaudio.com), there the best out there.

[du_dragons @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

Per #9...I was using a friend's iriver H320 last weekend. Seems like a nice player, unless you actually want to use it. I found the controls to be cryptic and the menus confusing. I liked the drag-and-drop, but it just seemed like iRiver put no thought into anything beyond "Hey, lets but a carbonfiber-looking shell around a hard drive!"

[Brian Danger Hicks @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

Don't nearly all of iRiver's flash players fit that description?

[EnzoTen @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

I highly recommend the MobiBLU DAH-1500. No need for drivers, it shows up as universal storage device. It was featured here on a few days ago, but here is the direct link to the review:

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2005/07/mobiblu-dah1500-review.php

Also if you are in the US, you will have to pick it up on ebay, it was never released in the states. The 512MB cost $129 including shipping.

[threEchelon @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

Try looking at the Muvo Slim. It's made by Creative and is much like the the other Muvo devices except for its shape. It has good features
a rechargeable, user-replaceable battery and is very good value.

[(V)auly @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

i have a Truly mp301 512Mb mp3 player it's the best one i've ever had, it supports all the features mentioned and is relitivly cheap, i reccomend it:
http://www.truly.net/html/prod/proddetail.php?id=20

[Alan JAcK @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

Network Walkman� Digital Music Player
NW-E507 $ 199.95
1GB Built-In Memory / Stores 695 Songs
Built in FM Tuner
3-Line EL (Organic Electroluminescence) Display
Super Quick Battery Charge (3 min charge = 3 hrs playback)
Up to 50 Hours of Playback Life with Rechargeable Embedded Battery
Plays Back in MP3/ATRAC3�/ATRAC3plus� Audio Formats

[steve @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

I have 2 samsung players. the YP-t6 (1 AAA battery) and the YP-t6x (1 AA Battery) both 512 mg, FM, voice recording, uses folders, nice screen, can get much smaller, has the direct USB dongle, no special software needed, supports all
formats including WMA DRM, except AAC. I would rather use a battery then have to charge up with USB connection. Great battery life. Battery goes in one end, so the cover won't fall off.
Perfect size, and features. Both around $100.

[billybob @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

I second Alan Jack's post the Sony kicks butt. the sound quality blows away my shuffle and my 20 gig 3g ipod. huge battery life and charges fast. Though I think that this does not solve the DRM issue the original poster asked for.
IMHO it is the best music player out there now though.

[Leth @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

I love my MobiBlu.

FANTASTIC lil' player.

Get one. Now. ;)

[Mike Reeder @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

The Rio Carbon is the only player other than the iPod (that I know of) that is compatible with iTunes on the Mac and Windows. Additionally, it also supports subscription services. Unlike the iRiver H10 or Creative Zen Micro, it allows you to select this mode (Media Transport Protocol or MTP) or standard MSC (Mass Storage Class). It works under Linux as well because it doesn't require any software to load music files. It's self databasing in that it will build it's Artist, Album, etc. lists automatically after you after disconnecting from the computer. The Rio Carbon is the best of all worlds and by far the least restrictions on your personal freedom regarding what you can do with your media files. Not all flash players are "open" either. The Sony NW-E507 mentioned above is indeed tempting but you cannot just drag-n-drop music files to it on a Mac or Windows. You must have Sony's SoundStage software installed because it has to "prepare" your MP3 files to be played on the device. It's crazy. The Samsung YP-T7(X or Z) would be my pic for best flash player.

[Bilgin @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

iaudio 5 - 1gb
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0007TSWYA/qid=1121397675/sr=52-1/ref=sr_52_1_etk-audio-video/104-4370989-1755922?v=glance&s=electronics&n=1065836

i use it everyday at the gym and couldn't be happier. Cross platform, drag and drop, arguably the largest screen real estate, runs off 1x AAA battery (i prefer replacable batteries, less headache) and plays a variety of music formats.

But then again, depending on what you do the X5 is the king of all DAPs. Hard drive based though...

[Mike Reeder @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

The Rio Carbon is the only player other than the iPod (that I know of) that is compatible with iTunes on the Mac and Windows. Additionally, it also supports subscription services. Unlike the iRiver H10 or Creative Zen Micro, it allows you to select this mode (Media Transport Protocol or MTP) or standard MSC (Mass Storage Class). It works under Linux as well because it doesn't require any software to load music files. It's self databasing in that it will build it's Artist, Album, etc. lists automatically after you after disconnecting from the computer. The Rio Carbon is the best of all worlds and by far the least restrictions on your personal freedom regarding what you can do with your media files. Not all flash players are "open" either. The Sony NW-E507 mentioned above is indeed tempting but you cannot just drag-n-drop music files to it on a Mac or Windows. You must have Sony's SoundStage software installed because it has to "prepare" your MP3 files to be played on the device. It's crazy. The Samsung YP-T7(X or Z) would be my pic for best flash player.

[EnzoTen @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

Sony is just as bad on the DRM and Sync issue. Just as much pain in the butt as the ipod. You must use Sony's SonicStage which is horrible compared to iTunes.

[Jon @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

Samsung. M6 unit - great battery life. Only issue is lack of importable playlist.

[Jon @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

Problems posting, however -
1) Samsung. YP-MT6. Only issue is that it does not do imported playlists. I have the one gig unit and love it for "gotta go in 10 minutes load stuff up mode"
2) (flame wars on) Sony Hi-MD. Fantastic battery life (40+ hours on a single 'AA'), 1 gig capacity replaceable disks (32 hours each with what I listen to) for $4 per disk. Fantastic for not having to deal with dropping issues, replaceable disks that are cheap, able to keep me in OTR for a couple of weeks on three disks when traveling, and none of this syncing crap when I have written a disk. MP3 drag & drop as well as (Oh am I gonna get flamed for this!) IMHO the atrac3+ codec that is better for what I listen to. But that requires a batch encode (120 hours listenable material done overnight).

[Kevin S @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

I'm partial to Lexars LDP-600 because of its great voice recorder, as I am in the field of journalism. It has an sd slot and is usb rechargable. It's only usb 1.0 but the updated LDP-800 will fix that with line in recording also added. Check them out at http://lexar.com/mp3/LDP600.html and http://www.lexar.com/ces/index.html.

[LeeBeckman @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

COWON iAudio U2 (or really any other iAudio player). The U2 is tiny, well designed, and solid. It has godlike sound quality with a considerable range of audio enhancement effects (and allows 5 user customizable EQ presets), supports many media formats (ogg and all that), allows voice recording, FM radio and FM recording, and has a jack for line in recording. The menu's are intuitive and the 'joystick' control is great once mastered (about 5 minutes of fiddling). Also, it charges at an insane speed if one sets it to do so, and the lithium ion can last up to and over 16 hours.

They come in 256MB, 512MB, and 1GB flavours.

[Stevie @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

I have a Creative Muvo TX FM 512MB, it's a bit old now but it's great at what it does, has a USB plug built into it so no need to carry adapters/USB cords around, use's an AAA battery, I use rechageables in it(think of the enviroment people! grrrr), it's smalish and the build quilty is okay (though a bit dodgy, whats with that creative?, can't You make the battey latch less crap)


as for other players
Cowon / iAudio have some great flash based players that go up to 2GB, good build quality/sound etc

[DiscoSanchez @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

May I suggest Jens of Switzerland? They seem to have all the features you're looking for, from what I remember at least.

[608zz @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

The Cowon iAudio U2 does exactly what you want. I use a Mac and chose the iAudio G3 which is basically the same thing as the U2 except that it uses a AA battery (something that I personally like better than a built-in battery - You can get decent rechargable AAs/AAAs known as NiMH). You can drag files directly to these players from either iTunes or any source on the Mac. The only non-Mac aspect about these players is that the firmware updaters are always a Windoze app (thus requiring a Windoze machine to do any firmware upgrades). As someone said, they do offer a lot of EQ/effect options and music file format compatibility. Cowon makes great products and stands firm behind them. The only thing I want more from them (other than a true UMS-compliant way of firmware updates) is a flash player that has an SD-slot so that I can bring all of my music with me (via SD-cards).

www.cowonamerica.com/products/

As far as I've heard, Creative brand players DON"T work with Macs. If they did, the C100 would be a fantastic player.

[e_bar_goum @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

you need an iriver 795 for sure...
for the original firmware youve got to have the sofware, but you can easily change it to a USM version via irivers download page ( http://www.iriver.com )
the controls are not that bad, once you get used to them :-)
or the 799 if u want a gig (same virtually)

oh and its got fm radio, voice/fm/linein recording 2...

it doesnt have charging via usb 2 , but it doesnt use much batteries :)!
(did i mention tiny?)
a fantsastic player...

[fabienne @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

nokia 6230. drag and drop files on MMC cards. i have a gig in mine. i'm told the 6230i revision is great too. it's nice not having to remember to charge another device, i already do that w/ my cell. simple audio player with shuffle. may require some harware hacking to plug any headphones in. i did the hack in about a half hour (the greenboard circuit inside the mic/select button thing on the cord is clearly marked left and right audio out.)

---f

[Jon @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

I'd get a pocket pc phone edition. It's the best "all in one" device I've seen so far. You can download/sync music and even sync podcasts over the internet standalone/pc free . They make up to 2 gig SD cards now as well. Check out the HP iPAQ HW6515 http://davesipaq.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=83 Why carry around a camera, mp3 player, and phone, when you can have one device that does it all?

[Peter @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

Another vote for Cowon: iAudio 5, iAudio G3, iAudio U2.

Only the U2 will charge from the USB port, the other two use a single AAA or AA respectively. This to me is an advantage because you can buy rechargeable AAA and AA NiMH cells and get all the benefits (keep a spare charged battery around all the time and there's no waiting to charge the player) while you get none of the downsides- i.e. a dead player with no way to get power. The life isn't as long with AAAs as you would get with a LiIon but with AA (especially since they're getting into 2500+ mAh territory) it's respectable.

The interface across all three looks about to be the same, i.e. nothing fancy but usable. Playlisting isn't the best out there, but again usable. Audio is regarded to be good, and I have no complaints. But before you want to talk about audio quality, dear God, get some decent headphones or ear buds and then come back and comment. Bundled 'phones are just that, bundled.

[Juan Alligator @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

Hardrive Player: iAudio X5
Internal Battery: iAudio U2 (My Recommendation for flash players)
AA Battery: iAudio G3
AAA Battery: iAudio 5

[phroztbyt3 @ Dec 19th 2005 1:24AM]

best 1 is definitely the Cowan IAudio U2 512 and 1gb models.... I know because I have 1. Its about 100 so its not too expensive. It has the drag and drop feature. It lasts for up to 20 hours... it uses usb 2.0 and can act as a thumbdrive quite easily. Match that with the sony ex-51 headphones and you have the best quality sound for that small of a player ever!