Music bloggers react to the Zune

It's not just the usual suspects talking about the Zune today -- last week Microsoft flew a bunch of music bloggers out to Seattle for an all-expenses paid first-look at the new device. Here's a roundup of some initial reactions:

• Glenn over at Coolfer thinks it feels a little heavy, but that the navigation is intuitive and simple. He likes the brown-colored Zune best, saying that it looks better in person than in pics (which we sure hope is the case).
• Amrit from Stereogum wishes it were thinner, but thinks the Zune's wireless capability is "pretty hot." He concludes that the "Zune is long on ideas, but may be short on time."
• MOKB discovered the one confusing feature about the Zune right off the bat -- the "scroll wheel" which turns out to be a directional pad, but actually liked the navigation once they got the hang of it. What they weren't digging so much was how "big and clunky" the Zune is compared with an iPod. They say that Microsoft danced around questions about combining the Zune and the Xbox into some sort of portable gaming console.

Read - Coolfer
Read - Stereogum
Read - MOKB

[fud patrol @ Sep 14th 2006 4:12PM]

Reader Comments FUD spreading. OH BOY!

[CharlieX @ Sep 14th 2006 4:13PM]

"big and clunky"

Above all else, I think this will hurt the Zune's chances more than anything else. Small is the in thing right now... no one wants to lug around big gadgets.

[Shmoe @ Sep 14th 2006 5:33PM]

I like the Gigabeat S better. This thing is fugly and DOA.

[Chris @ Sep 14th 2006 4:16PM]

virus jokes are so gay, i've been using vista since beta 1 and havent gottena virus ever since and i dont even ahve onecare installed... comments like that always seem idiotic like "XBL yay gaming viruses" wtf can't you think of anything with half a mind to say?

--------------------

I read the reviews they seem to be pretty good they all note that the device is slightly heavier than ipods but i think coolfer noticed the advantage, it feels very well crafted and solid :) I'd really rather a slightly heavy solid device then one that feels flimsy or overly delicate.

[Serge @ Sep 14th 2006 4:21PM]

"last week Microsoft flew a bunch of music bloggers out to Seattle for an all-expenses paid first-look at the new device."

alright! microsoft flew them out for a free vacation, their opinions cant possibly be biased.

Chris- since when is the ipod flimsy. i cound't find a crack to open mine up for like 20 minutes of trying, and finally got it open (without breaking it) after about 15. if thats not solid then i dont know what is.

[w3tw1lly @ Sep 14th 2006 4:25PM]

Yeah about the virus sharing... You are a dumbass. Not going to happen.

[Gordy @ Sep 14th 2006 4:28PM]

The bloggers also mentioned that Microsoft makes great Kool-aid.

[crescentdave @ Sep 14th 2006 4:29PM]

Dimensions: 4.4h x 2.4w x .58d inches (Compare to iPod 30GB: 4.1h x 2.4w x .43d inches) Weight: 5.6 ounces (Compare to iPod 30GB: 4.8 ounces) So we're looking at something approximately 1/32 of an inch deeper and .8 oz heavier. Sorry to bring facts into the picture.

1/32nd of an inch more depth- what a deal breaker. Who cares about the 1/2" more screen, the ability to partake of subscription plus buying music, to DJ'ing to friends and sharing playlists transparently- it's not an iPod.

[dave95 @ Sep 14th 2006 4:36PM]

@ Criss

If MS Zune player was thin and the iPod was thick, would you say the iPod felt better because it's heavier?

About the navigation:
I said this before, people are used to the scrollwheel (button), and find in superior to many other DAPs. When you have a product that looks like the scrollwheel but is really not, it tend to frustrate the user, especially if that user used an iPod.

[fastolfe @ Sep 14th 2006 4:34PM]

Maybe they copied the formula for Steve Jobs' kool-aid.

[Martin @ Sep 15th 2006 6:43AM]

Man oh man, this thing had better launch with NO technical problems, NO bugs (including the Zune PC software) and be solid as hell, or it'll flop faster than a drunk...

[Jake @ Sep 14th 2006 4:37PM]

I really wanted to like this thing because I think Apple needs some competition.

There are a couple of deal killers for me, though, with this device. They are:

1. No PlaysForSure compatibility. I much prefer the unlimited subscription model to the 99 cents per song model. Zune looks like its just trying to suck you into a Microsoft hardware/software trap as opposed to the existing Apple hardware/software trap. No thanks.

2. No tools for Podcast gathering/synching. I'm not sure about this because I haven't seen the details on the Zune Market or whatever it is going to be called. But MediaCenter 11 doesn't have it so I'm guessing Zune World won't either.

I was holding off on that 80GB iPod but I guess I won't need to anymore. (I like iPods, it's the iTunes only part that I don't like. I refuse to buy compressed, drm'd tracks at 99 cents apiece.)

By the way, I think iPod consumers (and potential iPod consumers) are already benefitting from Zune competition. I suspect the just anounced price drops/enhancements to iPod were prompted at least in part by Zune.

[CarrerCrytharis @ Sep 14th 2006 4:45PM]

Is the sharing of unprotected music files unrestricted? If it is, then that would make this device very cool.

As far as size and weight are concerned, I think the current iPods look anorexic. This device looks plenty sleek, and not as bulky as, say, the Zen Vision:M.

My main concern would be: does the UI have a context menu? I really like that feature on my Zen MicroPhoto. (Of course, a context menu might make it more complicated to use for some people, which is why they will probably leave it out. Still it would make it extremely functional in my opinion -- way more than an iPod.)

[Zadillo @ Sep 14th 2006 4:44PM]

crescentdave, sometimes dimensions don't tell the whole story. All we know for know is that that was the comment of these people who actually got to hold these things (that it felt bulkier). Sometimes a very small change in dimensions can actually be pretty noticeable. I mean, the actual dimensional difference between a 30 and 60/80GB iPod Video are pretty small too, but more noticeable when actually holding it.

Some of that also can just be chalked up to the overall shape and design of the case.

Anyway, I'm curious to hear more about the screen quality. It doesn't seem like they went into a lot of detail on that, other than that it's a bigger screen; but I've heard heard conflicting things about whether it is VGA or QVGA (QVGA would make more sense given the origins this has as a GigaBeat)..... if it is QVGA, I'm curious if that has any impact on the quality (i.e. if it looks more pixellated, etc.).

Also curious about battery life, but I guess this will be something we'll only know when people have more of a chance to use these extensively.

[theappletruth @ Sep 14th 2006 4:45PM]

it's thinner than my ipod photo 30gb which is more than comfortable in my hand and pocket. I just think the price should be competetive with the 30gb ipod since if it's priced at $299 like speculated then it will only be $50 more to get 50gb more, I don't think what the wifi has to offer will be able to sway enough people over.
Also, anyone know if it's gapless or not?

[coorspate @ Sep 14th 2006 4:47PM]

this will fail miserably like all the other so called ipod killers. no one wants a clunky big DAP. btw on a device that is supposed to be small 1/32nd by the way is wrong. do your math it is more than 1/6th W-I-D-E-R than the ipod and weighs more.

[Zadillo @ Sep 14th 2006 4:48PM]

Jake, just to clarify, Microsoft is offering both a subscription model and a purchase model, so you can get those unlimited subscription based downloads with the Zune.

Regarding podcasts, I have a hard time imagining MS won't do something about that. I notice in one of these previews that one of the MS guys say that they think Apple sees the world as closed and that the iPod is unconnected to artists and other people, etc. (I don't really buy this, but I understand why they say this). They made a big deal about how they see MySpace, YouTube, etc. and user generated content as being a big deal (and they claim that Apple apparently doesn't), so it doesn't make much sense that they would not have a way to handle Podcasts if that was their attitude (unless they see podcasts as being different).

[cobalt @ Sep 14th 2006 4:48PM]

Peter Kirn of createdigitalmusic.com also has a post about the Zune announcement, in which he points out the "send your friends your own recordings" feature as something interesting to think about.

The fact is, however, that if the Zune creates a market for these device to device functions, a wifi iPod plus a loyal iPod fanbase can do with more success, simply because of the numbers. And we know that the latest circuit boards by whatever company makes the circuit boards for the iPod has both BT and wifi options built in.

I'm just pointing this out. In fact, I shun most human contact and have no interest in actually interacting with others... why do you think I have an mp3 player?

[Zadillo @ Sep 14th 2006 4:50PM]

coorspate, "deeper" is in fact the right term...... the width actually seems to be identical. But you are right, .15 inches is not 1/32nd of an inch..... it is closer to 1/6th of an inch.

[tzaar @ Sep 14th 2006 4:55PM]

At whomever offered the seemingly factual 1/32" remark:

Actually, I think you'll find that if you do the math, the Zune is .15 inches thicker, which is more than an eigth of an inch, almost 3/16". Splitting hairs, you say? That means the Zune is 35% thicker than your iPod. To look at it another way, you can stack four iPods in the same amount of space as three Zunes. Which would be silly.

Tzaar

[Zadillo @ Sep 14th 2006 5:00PM]

I forget what the term for it is, but I remember that there's a phenomenon where you are more likely to notice something based on the relative difference. That is, you wouldn't notice an extra .15" on a device that was 5 inches thick, but on a device that is half an inch thick or so, it is more noticeable. So even though it seems like a trivial amount, it can be noticeable (same thing with the difference between the 30 and 60/80GB iPod Video).

[Conor Ryan @ Sep 14th 2006 5:01PM]

The funniest thing about the Zune, is that Microsoft still doesn't acknowledge it's exsistance. Go to microsoft.com and search for Zune, all you get is the "Did you mean: Zone?"

http://search.microsoft.com/results.aspx?mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&q=Zune

[Dodge @ Sep 14th 2006 5:13PM]

Just to clarify the "all expense paid vacation" part that someone commented on...

I left on Thursday at 7am, spent 6 hours on planes. Got to Seattle, was given the demo presentation and was back on a plane Friday morning at 7am, spending another 6 hours on planes to get home. Hardly a vacation.

I have a 4 GB Nano, a Dell DJ, and no brand loyalty. I wanted to see if this thing was worth a damn, so I went out to there to see...I'm not bias. If they had given me one, I might be, but they didn't. They didn't give any of us one. Anyway, it's news especially in my site's genre, that's why we all went and that's why the three of us reported on it and that's why Engadget is writing about it and that's why you're talking about.

[Tony @ Sep 14th 2006 5:20PM]

I wonder how many auto mfg's will offer Zune integration.

Oh, wait, nevermind...

I'm sure we'll also see a fair share of accessories, but will it rival the choice available for the iPod? I doubt it...

[Dan H @ Sep 14th 2006 5:26PM]

According to Billboard magazine, batter life will be about 12 hours with no wi-fi usage.

Full article here:

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003122340

[farris @ Sep 14th 2006 6:55PM]

Um, crescentdave, sorry to shove another thorn in your side, but if I did my math right (i dont think i did...):

The Zune is 30% larger (volume) and 14% heavier than the iPod 30GB.

Anyone wanna check my math for me?

[Warhorse @ Sep 14th 2006 5:36PM]

Sure the wifi will sell this product, but what will really drive it? Choice. If apple made a cellular network, their name alone would not suck up the majority of the market share, granted neither will MS. The choice alone will make this product move. I for one hope it does extremely well so that Apple has to "try" to compete with future pricing and better models. That way instead of turning up the brightness and putting an extended battery inside won't be called a new unit. If anything, hopfully this will spur Apple to be really creative in trying to keep it's market share, instead of trying to rely on fanboys that break out in hives when they are around non-apple products. Let's see the best these companies have to offer, not the least.

[matt @ Sep 14th 2006 5:38PM]

I've had the chance to use the Zune a little bit, and I didn't find it "big and clunky" at all. At first you do want to use the dpad as a wheel, but you get over it pretty quickly. The interface is great, and it sounds at least as good as the ipod (didn't get that much time with it). Overall it's a great player, and the subscription feature to the zune store sounds very interesting, depending on their pricing I could see myself using that.

[Jake @ Sep 14th 2006 6:03PM]

Zadilla, thanks for the info.

Here's what I don't like: I already have a rhapsody subscription and I like it a lot. I would like to use the PlaysForSure compatibility from that service but for reasons that Microsoft won't explain (I wouldn't want to explain it either if I were them, it's called Greed), they're going to make me sign up for some completely different Microsoft sponsored service. That kind of stuff just irritates me (it bugs me about Apple and iTunes, it bugs me about Sony and their stupid memory sticks, etc.).

I guess I'll have to wait and see the pricing on both the hardware and the subscription service but it sure would be a much easier decision for me if it worked with the music service (Rhapsody) that I'm already using.

Can you imagine how pissed Rhapsody and Napster and the other PlaysForSure Microsoft "partners" must be?

I will be curious to see if there is podcast support or not. Microsoft seems to kind of not get it when it comes to podcasts. How else can you explain the absence of podcatching from MediaCenter 11? I suppose if I really wanted to be cynical I could guess that Microsoft intentionally left podcatching out of MediaCenter 11 knowing that they would put it IN Zune Market. That way, any other devices relying on MediaCenter 11 for PlaysForSure synching will NOT have an easy podcast solution but the Microsoft Zune WILL have it. Wouldn't surprise me that much, I guess. But I really don't think Microsoft gets it about podcasting and video podcasting and such. If they don't, they're stupid. Maybe in 3 years they'll get it.

[Sam @ Sep 14th 2006 6:14PM]

Oh Boy, as if the mac/pc debate wasn't tiring enough, now we get to put up with years of zune/iPod debates.

[Dan @ Sep 14th 2006 6:12PM]

It's just a rebranded Toshiba..

[Mike D @ Sep 14th 2006 6:23PM]

Everybody is missing the best part about Zune, somebody is making a serious attempt to compete with the iPod. Creative can't do it, Sandisk can't do it. Maybe Microsoft can. It's unfortunate that it's Microsoft, but this is still a good thing.

Don't get me wrong, I own 2 iPods and ordered a new 80gb yesterday..but I'll be the first one in line when something truly superior to the iPod hits the market. "Zune 1.0" may not be it..but at the very least this will force Apple to stop dragging their feet on innovating. The Zune looks clunky, I have my doubts about the interface and how beneficial the WiFi really will be. But give it a year or two and maybe they'll have some good hardware on the market that will convert me from using an iPod.

[Eric @ Sep 14th 2006 6:46PM]

Yeah, let's clarify the "all expense paid" thing.

No self-respecting, ethical, journalist would take such an expense-paid trip. Period. It's just not done. Ah, yeah, I know, these were "bloggers." Buzz genrators. More akin to PR flaks than journalists from Microsoft's point of view, obviously.

Heh, to admit that if one had been given the toy, well heck, then they would be biased! That sure bolsters up the credibility a notch - NOT!

So, bloggers want to be taken seriously? First if all, understand the ethical principles involved in establishing your credibility. And please, don't pretend it was some horrendous trip on a slave ship. It's called a junket for good reasons.

[David @ Sep 14th 2006 7:00PM]

How has Creative not made a serious attempt to compete with the iPod? Because their marketing isn't as sexy? The Vision: M is already a better device than iPods of the same generation, and is easily comparable to this Zune with the exception of the WiFi. The only difference is Creative's product came out like 8 months ago! While Apple's fanboys and the anti-Apple zealots argue back and forth perhaps they should take an honest look at what's already available on the market before making any more bold proclamations one way or the other.

[Rick @ Sep 14th 2006 7:29PM]

Paul Thurrott: The gimmick appears to be wireless interaction with other Zune users. Since I expect there to be about six of these by the end of the year, this could be sort of a waste of time.


He's a slug, generally, but that was funny.

[crescentdave @ Sep 14th 2006 7:36PM]

I promise NEVER (well, almost never) to do math again. I couldn't even subtract the depth right, let alone do the conversion. I still stand by my miscalculations ... I just don't stand under them as they seem a bit ... shaky.

On the other hand- I don't see it as a deal breaker. I know there are folks who absolutely HAVE TO have the slimmest phone or the slimmest mp3 ... whatever. I'm more interested in what it can do for me and subscription music and the ability to wi-fi connect and transfer files, etc. is a great thing. I like the larger screen as well. WiFi only uses power, by the way, when it's being used by the player. It's not an "always on" always draining setup.

[Ben @ Sep 19th 2006 5:01PM]

"Zune is long on ideas, but may be short on time."

typical microsoft product then.

tons of half-assed "features", most of those doesn't work the way it should.

[The Jeremy @ Sep 14th 2006 8:00PM]

I wonder if the MPAA/Broadcasters/RIAA will have the ballz to take Microsoft to court over the Zune's wifi sharing abilities (in terms of sharing MP3s, unprotected AACs, etc). Seems to me that the feature would be just as vulnerable as the pre-recorded transfer-over-internet feature that was available in the SonicBlue era ReplayTV DVRs. One of the two features that were challenged in the courts and caused the bankruptcy of SonicBlue.

[Alex @ Sep 14th 2006 8:58PM]

I think iPod+iTunes will still have an edge in terms of content offerings. All of those pics show a lot of random videos and unknown bands, and the user interface looks jumbled. There was a video of the interface on You Tube.

[Aaron @ Sep 14th 2006 10:04PM]

Well, my position hasn't changed on the Zune: if it's done right, it could be awesome. I honestly don't think it would be hard to make something better than the iPod and this looks like it could be it. We'll see. The wireless stuff has potential, but... Let's be honest here, even though so many people have iPods, how often do you actually see another person with one? How many of your close friends have one? It'll take some time for the Zune to reach even that number of people, so what do you do in the meantime? Who do you share music with? Take a look at the PSP and DS. Developers are quickly learning that the ad-hoc multiplayer is pretty worthless, because what are the chances you're going to be around someone carrying the same system and game? Same deal here.

As for the size/weight issue... Guys, I don't know about you, but my pocket has an extra .15 of an inch available. I'm guessing yours does too. It's nothing to be so upset about, and it's certainly no reason to condemn the thing before it gets off the ground. Quit whining about it.

[mcdj @ Sep 14th 2006 11:08PM]

After watching the video of Zunes wireless music sharing all I can say is WOW! Only 47 clicks to transfer a self destructing DRM'd demo song. This is MS at its finest...offering features few will use after the first 3 days' gee whiz factor wears off.

I see PSPs on the subway every day. Not once since the PSP came out have I seen anyone playing a head to head game. Maybe I'm blind. I'm also not in middle school.

I just think if MS had spent more design money on out-sleeking the iPod and adding some sort of lust inducing must-have feature, like Bluetooth earbuds, and less time on battery munching UI gradients, fades and wipes, they might have had a shot. And if they insist on making the interface look like a Flash web page circa 2002, at least put the thing in a housing that doesn't look like a 1998 Palm Pilot.

I find it interesting that there are so many comments on the colors. If the color is the most compelling thing about the Zune, MS is in for a tough road. For the record, I can't think of a single cool gizmo in my 38 year existence that people went nuts for and also happened to be brown.

The iPod, love Apple or hate em, has proven that first and foremost, people want a music player with a straightforward intuitive interface. And they want it as thin and small as possible, with the more storage space, the better. And they want it sexy looking. (And by sexy, I mean chrome and black, aluminum and white, or a dash of unexpected color...not drab rubbery looking earthtones.) After those bases are covered, movies games and the like are just icing on the cake.

The Zune looks like it was designed by geeky interface tweakers for geeky interface tweakers. Most of my iPod owning friends use the iPod solely for music and either don't know or don't care about photos, videos, games, contacts, calendar, etc. Just getting the hang of managing a music library and getting music onto the iPod is enough geekery for many folks, let alone wirelessly sharing a demo song.

There was a long elaborate movie made years back, a sci-fi flick with lots of effects, a meandering plot and a big budget. There was quite a buzz when it came out but it was quickly all but forgotten. It rhymes with Zune and I think like the movie, the Zune will ultimately flop.

[Silver @ Sep 15th 2006 12:29AM]

Thank you mcdj for the best comments of the day.

[Dodge @ Sep 15th 2006 1:09AM]

Eric - I'm not pretending about anything, I'm just telling you it wasn't some glamourous and lush trip where blow and hookers were thrown at me in return for a write up on the Zune.

I'm not trying to be taken overly seriously either, I write an mp3 blog that deals mostly in independent music...the audience for that is about 5000 strong on a daily basis...hardly a blip on the radar. The topic is relevant to my audience because they download mp3s and need a player to listen to them on. 90% of them are loyal iPod users who would rather cut my throat than deal with another option not made by apple. I didn't take a side, I weighed in on some pros and some cons and gave my readers every piece of information that was given to me to the best of my ability. I gave apple plenty of coverage, as well, a couple days before when they launched their new iPods and movie service.

anyhoo, sorry you're so put off, but truth is, I am just an average guy with a day job and a love of music that also runs a blog that some people like. when i write for a real recognized publication you can bring your wrath upon me all you want if i accept a flight and a hotel in another city so i can report on something people are interested in, but right now, i could care less.

[_man1c_ @ Sep 15th 2006 1:51AM]

its a toshiba. toshiba actually makes some great mp3 players. wait till the next-gen Zunes come in to truely redicule MS. those will be in-house built. but by all means Toshiba is prolly one of the top 5 companies in the mp3 making business.

[Giggle Beans @ Sep 15th 2006 7:24AM]

So could someone tell me exactly how it is that Apple is "dragging their feet" in regards to their innovation? What exactly do they need to be pushed toward? First there's screaming and moaning that they innovate too fast and make their products obsolete in a matter of 6-9 months. Now they go a year without anything earth-shattering and suddenly they're just a stagnant bore that needs to be pushed because they're just not giving everyone what they want? Has the current 5G iPod suddenly become a dinosaur of a player in the 10 months since it was announced?

I think one of the bloggers was on point when they said that the Zune is "long on ideas but short on time". You have to know that Apple doesn't rest on it's laurels...they doesn't have that luxury. It's not in their DNA. They simply dressed their current iPod up for the holidays so that they would still move units while their next batch of goodies finishes cooking in the lab.

[keith waddington @ Sep 15th 2006 7:40AM]

There's nothing wrong with those bloggers going on a free trip to see this thing. But there is something wrong with Microsoft setting it up. It's slimy and conniving and typical of Microsoft.

Now here's a company that has a 90% monopoly on OSs, and has a history of illegal and unscrupulous monopolistic practices. Now why is it you want them to succeed in the music business too? That's really what I don't understand.

waddo
http://www.waddo.net/

[penn @ Sep 15th 2006 6:46PM]

Is the ipod the only thin player out there? I think it will be a non issue. Personally, when things get too small, they become twice as difficult to use.

I hate thin phones, I hate small buttons, and personally, using the new ipod feels like your navigating an oversized credit card. too thin in my opinion.

the original ipod mini was the perfect size. Just small enough to slip into your pocket, but just the right size to hold comfortably in my hand.

[Joe Zobkiw @ Sep 15th 2006 8:34AM]

That BROWN one is really gonna show Apple! I already planning on putting my iPod on eBay. It's so obvious to me that everyone is going to want a BROWN Zune! Reminds me of shoes I wore as a kid...nostalgia...see...that sells! WTF! BROWN?

[dave95 @ Sep 15th 2006 9:30AM]

Brown reminds me of the Brown pants the elderly men wore when I was a kid.......I think this was a personal choice by Ballmer himself.

The first person I see with this Brown ZUNE I will laugh my ass OFF, can't stop laughing Now :-)

[Gordy @ Sep 15th 2006 9:40AM]

Sam, I doubt this debate lasts for years.