So long MiniDisc; don't slam the door on the way out

Is it finally the end of the road for the oft-maligned MiniDisc? It certainly seems that way, judging from the recent activity at the MiniDisc Community Forums. Though not exactly a hotbed of anti-MiniDisc activity, one member points out that at Sony's recent corporate strategy meeting there was no mention of the format, and it was also a no-show in the company's annual report, other than as an example of a dying format: "...consumer preferences shift from CD-based and MD-based products to those with flash memory and HDDs…" Given that Sony CEO Howard Stringer has pledged to eliminate up to 10,000 jobs, it doesn't seem like such a stretch to imagine that the MiniDisc division will fall to his ax. Let's just hope he takes the ATRAC format along with it—they did kill SonicStage, after all.

[Keirmeister @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

That's sad, but understandable. I have 3 different MiniDisc players/recorders in my home, that we've had for years. Unfortunately, Sony wasn't smart enough to expand on the idea. They could have made them natively MP3-compatible early on. I would have loved to be able to buy cheap MD media and save MP3's on them. But oh well. Sony is losing is edge anyway. Samsung is/has replaced them.

[Peter G. @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

Noooooo! Squirrely! SQUIRRELY! Talk to me squirrely!

[Steven @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

I still use my Sony MD recorder for portable recording. It's great. It runs at least 12 hours on one AA battery. Plus it powers my stereo mic when it records.

[Jonathan Marks @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

I've said it before in other public forums, Panasonic - but especially Sony - are becoming dinosaurs in many sectors of the consumer electronics and broadcast industry. It is the smaller companies that are perceived as innovative.

Sony has persisted with its own in-house standards like ATRAC audio compression, when the outside world was screaming MP3. I'm keeping their fall 2005 European catalogue as an example of how NOT to get concepts over to the public....every "new" technology feature is given its own brand name. People do not write this down and then go to the store with a list of techno brand names.

In the broadcast world, Sony has been a very traditional production company concentrating on television. They are very poor at integrating their solutions with other platforms - like new media and radio. They are much too expensive for what they deliver.

I would argue their only contribution to radio production was the Sony Pro cassette recorder and a great pair of closed headphones. Sony Minidisc has been a great example of a fragile consumer technology misused by freelancers to try and work to professional standards. If you have Minidiscs, make sure you copy off the contents to another media (e.g. hard-disk) as soon as possible. Ten years from now you are not going to find a minidisc player to play this stuff back. Remember 5 1/4 inch floppy discs? By stating that the new Walkman Phones will not support ATRAC music formats, Sony effectively killed the Minidisc in March of this year. I too am curious to see what Sir Howard Stringer will do to put them back on the map - like no other.

[Dave @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

Sony has had it's head stuck in it's collective a** for way too long. Did Sony really think that by ignorning the market for devices like CD burners and mp3 players without DRM that consumers wouldn't buy them? Instead other companies produced those devices and cashed in where Sony should have. Now Sony is rightly considered an also-ran in the technology world.

[apeguero @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

Did the MD technology evolve into the UMDs?

[British @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

I remember in 1994 when a store called Title Wave(long out of business) had a Minidisc section. I saw before me entire albums in the MiniDisc format. I never saw it again after Title Wave closed down.

[s2 @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

I'm not surprised by this news. MiniDisc was one of those cool ideas on paper that never quite succeeded in the marketplace. When MP3 was introduced, it pretty much killed the need for MiniDisc or any disc for that matter.

Sony was slow to acknowledge this, and instead only complicated matters by introducing their own digital format that never gained acceptance.

It's funny, Sony has historically created new formats that achieve some support but ultimately fail. Like even now... did we really need UMD? What about the upcoming Blu-Ray?

I think discs in general are going to be antiquated at some point, as flash memory catches on in higher capacities at lower costs. Think about it-- no moving parts. Small size. The only reason discs are so popular right now is because they are inexpensive. Some day, that COULD change.

[js @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

Next, kill the memory stick. I beg you, Howard.

[ginnal @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

Minidisc is superior to both flash and hard drive based solutions. Yes you heard me.

1 Gig of infinitely rewriteable media for $2 a pop. Even better the theoretical limit on storage density for MD was 5Gb/Disk.

The disks could be easily transported from your player to Car Deck to Home Desk.

Sony Destroyed this format through DRM plain an d simple.

Anyone who disagrees is quite frankly an uninformed imbecile.

[jared @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

The disc versus flash/hd distinction misses the biggest (perhaps only) reason MD is a dead format: horrible Sony product design decisions.

Anyone else would have supported mp3 and pcm recording, and anyone else would have supported the generic USB storage device standard.

If Sony decides to sell their Hi-MD technology to someone with no resident music-publishing overlords to appease, earth could still see a marketable MD product.

[Teve Torbes @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

Kill MD/MS, kill ATRAC, kill UMD (wishful thinking).

Sell/spin off the movie, music and television production divisions. The consumer electronics and media divisions are not creating any 'synergy' for eachother. Each would do better on their own. But keep gaming division part of the consumer electronics division.

Support CF/SD, support MP3/WMA/ACC/MPEG4-AVC, and other POPULAR standards.

Sony has become to big to be competitive. They need to shed off dead weight to become an agile player in the consumer electronics market. Only then will Sony see a resurgence.

[Troy @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

no if only sony would outright buy InPhase license and figure out hwo to make those 1.6tb discs reqwriteable and wed have an unstopable media for at least 2 yrs, i have a great idea for a portable player outside of HDD that suck the life outta portable units not to mention of the HDD goes bad or the unit goes bad you have an entire library to replace instead of just a single disc. i dont think following the iPod is smart you need to branch off and give consumers a reason to jump ship on _THE_ icon of portable music now. Sony InPhase MD players in '06 c'mon Sir Stringer.

[josh @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

What I know of MD is what I hear through concert recordings. I'm a big Pearl Jam fan and they have a very devoted fan base that records as many shows as possible. Many of the mid 90's shows were only recorded on MD. Listen to a MD concert and it generally is torture. Same concert recorded with a DAT and you're golden. (big variables include your mic's, location to sound source, wind, crowd noise, etc.) I'm not saying it's fair to compare the 2, but it is very clear that MD isn't capable of providing the quality sound that I want to hear.

[raindog @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

Minidisc wasn't 1GB when the format was first introduced... it was closer to 140MB, and there was no way to use it as a 140MB floppy disk with your computer, anyway.

As for "1GB of infinitely rewritable media for $2", I'll stick with "4.7GB of almost infinitely rewritable media for 80 cents", in the form of DVD+/-RW. If I want the Minidisc form factor, storage capacity and (over)price, I'll buy 3" DVD's.

It was a nice idea, and the first viable read/write random access format big enough to store audio on, but Sony blew it not only with DRM but with preventing me from buying one stack of media and using it for audio, video and computer backup as I did with CD's. And it looks to me like they're going to blow it with UMD as well, exactly the same way.

[Bananatree @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

While MD has had a cult following trying to be a cheap medium between DAT and Cassette. (With Dat being great and expensive and Cassette being terrible and cheap)
It was never picked up as everyone I had ever spoken to thought it was made to replace the compact disc, rather than to replace the cassette tape.

Sony missed the pirate media boat, since they are technically a Record label as well. So they could never trust that the MP3 you have on HDD is of legitimate source or not.

With the advent of the new HiMD generation, "mp3 Compatible" was the equivalent of saying "I left my homework at home". It's technically at home, but it doesn't mean it was completed. Same with mp3 on HiMD. Sure it's there, but it is highly crippled.

Still, had Sony let HiMD flourish (a.k.a no DRM), at 7 dollars per gig of removeable media, I think HDD's would have a bit of competition. (forgetting slow write speeds and crippled software).

Anyways, I had a real good time with MD. Recording off the radio, my gameboy and whatever else I wanted to put on my mixes, and I will probably use the MD technology circa 1999 for awhile to come.

~Bananatree
Forums.minidisc.org mod :)

[NekoTsukimi @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

I almost forgot that MD existed still. The last I saw of them were a bunch of the discs in a bargain bin selling for 50 cents and no one grabbing and my mom going "Hey! Can you use these in your CD burner?" I'm happy I never got on the bandwagon. It's a cool idea, but it's just not very practical in a world where everybody has a CD player and, chances are, no one has an MD player.

Sony's really killing me with all these Sony-only storage mediums!

[birdman @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

UMD will follow the MD in a few short years.

[Matt E. @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

For Sale:
1 - Sony MDS-101 Home Mini-Disc Recorder/Player Deck
1 - Remote for MDS-101
1 - 60 minute blank disk
1 - 75 minute blank disk
2 - music sampler disk

Bought in 1995. Barely used. Original owner.

Make me an offer. im @ matte dot com

[Frangible @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

Minidisc would have been successful, if, starting with NetMD, the devices showed up as mass storage devices and played any MP3 you dragged and dropped to them with no DRM BS.

But Sony didn't want people putting pirated music on them. Well, you won Sony. People won't. Because no one will buy them.

[Scott @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

Mini Disc was actually very successful in Japan. It was a great replacement for cassette tapes and was able to thrive in an area where PC's don't really rule the roost at home (therefore, a low percentage of homes equiped with CD burners).

These days, Mini Disc makes absolutely no sense thanks to the arrival of better storage technology (hard drives, flash memory, etc).

[Jeramy @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

yeah i was never really that big on minidisc. it seemed like a good idea until i became familiar with mp3 cds. i have an mp3 cd player in my car and my room. cds are cheap and they hold like 200 songs. granted, ipod is probably a better solution, but 300 dollars doesnt grown on trees when you have to buy an xbox 360 too.

[ginnal @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

Raindog, Did I not clearly say.

"Anyone who disagrees is quite frankly an uninformed imbecile."

You then go on to prove me quite correct.

"Minidisc wasn't 1GB when the format was first introduced... it was closer to 140MB"

What is your point it was competing with Zip dics, CDR and RW had not yet taken off.

"and there was no way to use it as a 140MB floppy disk with your computer"
Absolutely completely and utterly wrong.
Sony Released a Minidisc Drive for the PC, the fact that you don't know this shows you are unqualified to partake in this discussion by virtue of your lack of knowledge on the subject.

"As for "1GB of infinitely rewritable media for $2", I'll stick with "4.7GB of almost infinitely rewritable media for 80 cents"

R/W Discs cost 80 cents? Additionally how does RW Affect readablity?

[010111 @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

first of all... MP3 wasn't even around when MD was released. not in any form that was remotely a concern at the time. MD came out in 1992. MP3 didn't even have a decent player until 1997-ish.

MD was released as a successor to the cassette... the only convenient recordable format at the time. the big battle for a next-generation digital recording format was between MD and DCC. MD kicked DCCs ass! woo! yeah! Sony *won* a next gen format battle!!!

oh wait... no it didn't.

cause no one wanted MD. with it requiring a new expensive player/recorder... high media costs... extremely lossy sound (1992 i'm talkin')... and crappy DRM preventing 2nd gen digital transfers. (can make a digital "copy" of a CD but not a copy of a copy)...

they wanted recordable CDs. period. end of story.

Sony *could* have made a worthwhile format but basically borked it every step of the way. they made a cool DataMD drive to compete with Zip... but you had to buy "Data Only" MD discs... and you couldn't like drag an audio file off a MD Audio disc using the drive... nor put one on. DUMB.

when MP3 was obviously hideously popular... Sony could have easily made a way to play MP3 off MiniDisc. or made MiniDisc recorders mountable on computers. they did not. this would have basically killed the entire early flash player market... and been extremely popular to this day. cheapo durable small magneto optical rewriteable media would have sold tons in the early MP3 days. but they didn't do it. they even hobbled audio players that had *nothing* to do with MD with lame nonsense ATRAC.

they literally could have ruled the market. but they instead screwed up basically every step of the way.

i'm still not entirely sure why UMD even exists... seems to me that the PSP should have run off HiMD. or like HiMD+ or something. complete nonsense. (i suppose they didn't like the fact that MD writers exist in the real world... to be hacked and abused...) but still... MD would have made a TON of sense. i have to imagine a 2GB Memory Stick wouldn't be needed if you could pop in $2 1GB MDs though. even games could use RW MDs... for game saves and the like. i guess that all makes too much sense though.

[troy @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

hey,

my band in los angeles used a minidisc recorder to record practices and live shows and lots of stuff. it was pretty cool but i had to drop everything in real time on my pc to email the guys and it SUCKED. though i did love the whole minidisc community thing where people recorded live shows & what not, that was really interesting.

i recently left my other band and had to leave behind the minidisc (wasn't mine). so in my new band i was looking for a way to record our practices in the same way that I did with the minidisc. while i was totally drooling over the m-audio CF recorder that they just announced (with phantom power!), i had nowhere near 400 bucks to spend on something like that.

what i did find was this little gem, the Olympus DM-10. I was blown away by the quality. you can hear for yourself at www.myspace.com/pioneerten, the track "put the arm on" was recorded with the DM-10 with the stereo mic they included in the package. my placement sucked, i now stick it in the middle of the room and you can hear absolutely everything. i knew that was going to happen with minidiscs... i'm glad i didn't pick one up.

[h0mi @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

cause no one wanted MD. with it requiring a new expensive player/recorder... high media costs... extremely lossy sound (1992 i'm talkin')... and crappy DRM preventing 2nd gen digital transfers. (can make a digital "copy" of a CD but not a copy of a copy)...




Admittedly the 88-92 era is a little hazy for me, but I think MD failed (though it managed to fare better than DCC because nobody wanted DCC at all) primarily due to costs of the media. Rewriteable CDs were still years away... you could spend ~3k on a recordable CD in 92 but CDrom drives in computers were not yet ubiquitous and home stereo CD playerss were still on the wrong side of the $100 mark. Portable CD players were $150+. Zip disks came out later (95 IIRC).

[Samuel Lago @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

There's something incredibly satisfying about SONY being kicked when they're down :)

[is @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

im still using my netMD until i can get the n91/a proper music phone. Its alright, the only real problem is that the transfers are so damn slow! To get a 100 songs onto a disc requires fairly high compression, and takes at least a half hour. And i have to arse around with sonicstage.

Thank god i will soon enter the world of drag and drop.

[slick rick @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

I just sold my MD recorder, sony mic., Sony DAT recorder, and bought the Edirol R1 digital recorder. It's about time we ditched this antiquated and user-unfriendly recording equipment. Good riddance! I've never been happier.

[tbonespop @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

I use an AIWA MD recorder to record my warblings while playing guitar and singing. I have a bunch of blank discs and I will continue to record until the hardware goes out. After that, I will buy a player at a discount, transfer the recordings to hard drive, and put my MDs into a box labeled "Antiquated but cool at the time" to show my kids when they're older. MD was still a much better idea than 8-tracks or cassettes. Tape simply sucks. That goes for DAT.

[Bananatree @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

^"put my MDs into a box labeled "Antiquated but cool at the time" to show my kids when they're older"


I still like MDs since I can label them and draw/print on them. My kid/s will know their father was a wierd art/nerd that spent too much time fiddling with removable media.

[BigB @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

I jumped on the minidisc bandwagon relatively late, right before Hi-MD came out. I love my minidisc though! If you think of it as a superior version to the audio cassette recorder, you can find its niche. With optical and analog input, I was recording all sorts of cool things without being tied to my computer.
Yes, I agree, DRM killed it. The "new" minidiscs aimed at mass market have don't even have recording capability! They think they can pass it off as some sort of replacement to your MP3 player. That is not its strength, because they are too scared you'll be playing stuff you didn't pay Sony for.
The one thing I found my minidisc best for (direct recordings) is now only offered in the high-end devices. Sony really did shoot themselves in the foot on this one. With proper positioning, it would have replaced the audio cassete years ago. if they wouldn't have tried to make it something it wasn't designed for (mp3 player substitute), then they would still have a good market for minidisc. There is STILL no better solution for portable recording for the masses. I would bet my minidisc over my mp3 player for audio quality any time!

[clicclic @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

Sony's total failure at marketing new products started soon after they bought Columbia.

The company is no longer run by engineers (like it once was) but is now run by L.A. lawyers and paranoid Hollywood types who are completely OUT OF TOUCH with how people think. The money of course is in software, so the company's not a complete goner. But these Hollywood idiots continue to destroy Sony's historic hardware talent.


EARTH TO HOLLYWOOD SUITS: get OUT of LA, travel to anywhere else in America, and see for yourself how people use this technology. HDCP and HDMI will not change anything. GET REAL...

[Cambob @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

Minidisc was around before CDs were burnable. They were an improvement on CD technology. They were smaller, didn't skip, and were recordable. Sony messed that up somehow and Minidisc didn't catch on.

As far as early in the MP3 game, The Minidisc was not a bad product... but with flash prices dropping, Minidisc is of course going to die. Hardrives are next.

Flash is superior since it is incredibly small and power efficient.

Sony is being shaken up. I expect they'll make a come back.

[Mark @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

I still have my old minidisc players somewhere. i still have my MD headunit in the car, although now it's just used with a dension ice:link to dock my iPod.

Poor minidisc - you held so much promise - if only you hadn't been the bastard child of Sony...

[ChillyWilly @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

As a long time MD user (got my first player/recorder - the MZ-1) in 1992, I'm sad to hear the possible news that the format may be on the chopping block at Sony.

While DAT was superior to MD, it was MD that allowed me to edit and record various interviews and live shows easier.

And even with the advent of DAP players like the iPod, there will always be a place for MD for live recording and other recording uses.

Personally, I felt the format was successful at it's goal of replacing the cassette (as bananatree wrote), just not in the US. Yes, the cassette is pretty much gone now, but as we are seeing the CD get replaced by digital media, we are now seeing the convergence of media into a single type, even if the format wars are still going on.

If the news is true, then R.I.P. MiniDisc. You'll always have a place in my audio collection of devices and formats that served me well over the years.

If it's not dead, then Sony needs to find some way of getting the format back into shape. Somehow, I don't think that's a task that Howard has planned.

[DG @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

At the beginning of mp3 popularity, I asked for an mp3 player for Christmas. My well meaning mother bought me a MiniDisc player because it said MP3 compatible on the package. For any real purpose, it definitely wasn't; it can't work without its own software, and I'm stuck with a small machine that can play the same 80 mp3s because I lost the install discs.

But at least it came with a neat armband.

[Marc @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

#37 You know you can download SonicStage from Sony right?

And I know I'm in the minority but I use my NetMD Walkman everyday. I bought it 3 years ago based on 3 things: cheap media, 50+ hour batter life (on one AA) and the promise of 5 hours per disc. Sony delivered on all fronts except the 5 hours on one disc. Came close, but never the magic 5 hour mark.

I'm not going to mourn the "loss" of a great friend. My little MD player still works great and will continue to do so everyday until I can buy a 20gig flash/HDD MP3 player for $100.

[CAJ @ Dec 19th 2005 1:37AM]

Dear Forum on Minidiscs and the blatantly biased person who thinks that those who criticise minidiscs are silly....

I had minidisc player, two in fact after the first one smashed. My experiences were:

Capacity too small.
Hi_MD discs too expensive.
Hi_MD units too expensive.
ATRAC3 is rubbish.
SonicStage is rubbish.

The second one then died for no obvious reason after 1 and a half years.

I now have an iPod. Benefits are:

60GB capacity.
Plays MP3 (good format).
I CAN record on it with the Griffin microphone. I CAN play it through my stereo and car stereo with the Griffin FM transmitter.
Shows photos too on the large colour screen.

No need for Minidisc.

Goodbye